Legion Wiki talk:Community Portal

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Redesigning the Legion Wiki Structure

I've been giving some thought to the structural thoughts you [CG] e-mailed me during the downtime, and doing some searching around. What if we adopted a "continuity family" model like the Transformers Wiki, which seems to be the sort of thing you were aiming at.

In that model, we'd have four major continuity families (the exact names are up for debate, of course, but this gives the gist):

• Preboot (=Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, Glorithverse, Lightning Saga (aka Post-IC/Earth-0), Adult Legion and some small "imaginary story"-type "microcontinuities")
• Postboot (=Post-Zero Hour, Post-IC/Earth-247, Universe Ablaze-verse, Dead Earth futures, One Million, the future Thom goes to and becomes Danny Blaine, and probably a few other shards)
• Threeboot (=Post-IC/Earth-Prime and possibly some microcontinuities)
• Cartoons (LSH cartoon and DCAU)

There'd also be a few other leftover Elseworlds that don't fit into any of those - Superboy's Legion springs to mind, as does the Arthurian Legionnaires Annual - but they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis; and a few anomalies (mostly from the present day) that don't quite work as any of these, but that would be the major structure.

If we went this road, there'd be one Preboot page for all the relevant characters, and an infobox for each of the major sections (covering their status in that version of continuity). Something along these lines (which is intended as a basic template, not a definitive page-structure).

There would be a need to maintain a separate structure to some extent, but a page like Timeline/Glorithverse, which deals with the revised continuity, could move to Timeline/Preboot/Glorithverse. Categories-by-era could mostly move to [[Category: * (Preboot)]] and the like. Also, there would be anomalies as I mentioned earlier, like Mon-El/Valor (Glorithverse Valor would actually sit far more comfortably in some ways on a page with Reboot M'Onel than with Preboot Mon-El).

Still, thoughts? - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

This is very much in line with what I have been thinking, and your example page even moreso. Particularly with the Preboot family, while changes occurred because of a Crisis (or whatever), 90% of a given character's timeline remains the same. It makes sense that these be seen as a continuity, with changes noted as you describe in your example page. I also think that DC agrees with your basic groupings, as Legion of Three Worlds attests. Admittedly, there are a range of one-off stories that don't fit in anywhere, but I'm sure we can find somewhere to group those together. Smallvile comes to mind as another one that doesn't fit anywhere else.

One great advantage of this structure is that we are less likely to need to keep adding more and more differentiations as time goes only. New twists will probably fit into an existing time-line somewhere. I also think it will be more easily grasped by newbies. Assuming we follow this path, might I suggest we map this out a bit more fully to try to shake out any potential issues before we start building pages? It sounds as though you have already thought about a lot of the necessary angles, but it might be useful to list as many of the pieces as we can up-front to help anticipate and avoid issues. Also, we don't need to make this transition immediately. We can take a little time to figure out how we want to name the families, etc.

Gopher 02:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The problem I keep coming up against with this is the 20th/21st century stuff, and how to classify that. Mon-El/Valor/M'Onel/Mon-El is probably the most obvious one, but Superman family stuff in general (which has been rebooted to some degree at least five times in the past ten years, Kon-El getting a new & irreconcilable origin, etc) is itchy, and I'm not sure how to break that down alongside the 30th/31st century. Any specific thoughts on that? - Reboot (SoM) talk page 14:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

For those instances, we may need to write the page from a real world point of view and discuss the conflicts and overlaps on the page. Its possible that some pages may not be able to be classified neatly into one or the other family - one option would be to categorize in both/all and then simply point out which pieces fit where. Not the greatest solution, but would only apply to a few pages out of hundreds.

I think we should set up a working page/set of pages to start listing out what will go where, discuss names of the eras/families, determine a new coloring scheme, and the like. As issues like Mon-El come up, we can dissect the pieces and see exactly how big the issue is, what parts obviously go in one category or another, etc. Gopher 20:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Original art from interior pages

In the past we have not uploaded many images of black and white artwork from interior comic pages, although we do have a fair smattering of cover artwork. This is probably because not many people have access to originals, so the available images ate few. However, I just bought a page of Cinar art from LSHv6 #1, and it has increased my interest in that area. I met a collector online who owns more than 100 pages of Legion interior art, representing a wide variety of artists. He says he knows four other collectors who each own over 1,000. It would be very cool to start a comprehensive gallery of interior art pages, and if even one of this guys friends participated, we could have a pretty decent gallery.

Here are my questions, if anyone knows the answers. Are there any legal issues with posting so many interior pages? Is it any different from posting B&W cover art? Does the fact that the owners of the originals donated the images make any difference? Do you think it is likely that DC would take notice and disapprove? Assuming no legal issues, is it something you would be interested in adding to the wiki? At present, I don't know if anyone other than the initial guy I talked to are willing to participate, but what are your thoughts on this topic in general? Over time, we could assemble quite a bit of the Legion's interior art in one place, something that does not exist anywhere for any series, as far as I know.

Gopher 08:43, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I've got quite a lot of scans (somewhere around a hundred, although of variable quality) from the LegionPics "rescue" effort.

The owners of the original pages are, except insofar as they'd be willing to donate time & effort to scan, irrelevant from the "legally is it okay" perspective - when they buy the pages, they explicitly buy ONLY the physical art and no other rights. DC are the only Important party in that sense, and I honestly don't know on that score. I suspect it may depend on what percentage of an issue is scanned, how many issues, that sort of thing. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:12, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you think we could get away with posting all 39 pages from LSHv6 #1? Cinar is selling them the day the issues are released, and the art vendor posts very nice scans of every page. Even if we can't get away with full issues, I think I'm going to upload quite a few more pages. I think I have downloaded about 100, which hopefully aren't the same 100 you rescued. Most of these are one or two pages to a given issue, so hopefully that won't draw any unwanted attention. If it becomes a problem, we can always take them down. --Gopher 22:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that, shy of DC never noticing, there's no way in the world we'd get away with posting the whole of an issue (let alone a current one) and I expect that the artist's dealer will have to take them down either as they're sold or within a reasonable time thereafter. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 00:32, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Images to reupload

I've started a list of images which are on the server, but aren't in the database, here: /Images to reupload - Reboot (SoM) talk page 22:12, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

This is auto-generated? I'm working my way backwards through the LPH, which will eliminate a good percentage, but it will be good to know where the other holes lie. --Gopher 23:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Most assuredly not auto-generated (if only I had a bot...). Me going through all the folders (under /0/ so far), checking which filenames generate a redlink and pasting those into that list.

Once you have the link, you can paste them into the URL field on Special:Upload - I checked by doing it on File:Action860A.jpg, and it worked. That's about the limit of the labour-saving. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 23:53, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Attracting more contributors

I'd like to make a concerted effort to attract more users who contribute to the site on a regular basis. I would be interested in your thoughts - what pieces do you think will work, what should we rethink? Here's what I am envisioning:

1. Preparing the site - If we get an influx of new people involved who begin editing pages on a regular basis, it will be helpful if we have resources in place to guide them in the right direction. These should include the following:
   1. An immediate landing page to direct people who have been invited to participate. As described below, I plan to email, post messages on blogs/discussion groups/facebook, and possibly even take out inexpensive classified ads in comic related magazines. Having a landing page where they can find out how to get involved quickly and easily, with a URL that we can use in emails/postings/ads will help. A possible name for the landing page could be Calling all Legion experts.
   2. Pages that explain policies, naming conventions, where to find things, suggestions for pages to work on. We already have much of this in place, but I'd like to make sure we cover as many bases as possible.
   3. The Community portal will be much more important if we have an actual community. We will need a way to get word out to new people in an easy manner, and having announcement "headlines" on the main page linking to more detailed versions on the top Community portal page will probably do the trick. I'd also like to see the Community portal discussion pages turn into a categorized series of pages with common topics, as I have already started. I called these pages "archives" but I don't want to convey the idea that no one can continue the conversation there. This still needs some thinking about how best to organize/name.
2. Once the site is prepared to more easily get our new experts up and running, I'd like to begin reaching out to Legion enthusiasts in as many targeted ways that we can think of.
   1. Where possible, I'd like to find emails for people who have demonstrated their love for the Legion and send them a personalized message. Heck, I'll call them to discuss if they are open to it.
   2. Another good source will be to reach out to people who currently run Legion-related blogs or websites. They may not be willing or able to devote time to the wiki themselves, but they might be able to help us out by posting announcements or updates about us. I think this would work best if we discuss by email first and then plan to a specific "roll out" of the open call for Legion experts. If this message appears everywhere at once, especially if we can get the bloggers to put their weight behind it, this could really get some initial momentum. If we can send out "news releases" every 3 months or so with updates on our progress, this would keep the wiki in the fan consciousness and possibly renew the supply of contributors periodically.
   3. Slightly less personal, but a great source of leads would be regular, planned posts on message boards. I know that many of the people who frequent these boards are probably already aware of the wiki, but I'd like to encourage our contributors to link back to the wiki as often as possible. For instance, I occasionally post questions or answers to a trivia thread on the DC boards. If it is even remotely possible, when I give an answer to a trivia question, I try to link back to a wiki page that relates to the answer. Sometimes it prompts me to edit the page again, and perhaps our newbies would do the same. In making an initial call for "Legion experts," I think it will work better to encourage them to contact me (or someone else) personally for information, rather than simply explain it on the message board. My observation is that most people are very unmotivated to do anything that involves work from a posted message, but if we can engage them on a more personal level, they might be more inclined to get involved.
   4. Lastly, I would also like to do some inexpensive advertising in comic-related periodicals. This will find people who aren't aware of blogs or boards. It also adds further credence to the seriousness of our effort to develop the wiki.
3. Once people are here, we need to implement strategies to get them involved and encourage more frequent contributions. Assuming that we get at least a few people, here are a couple of ideas how:
   1. We could organize the people into teams that focus on specific eras. Silver Age, Disco Legion, Reboot, Threeboot, whatever. Most people have a particular period of which they are most fond, so they might feel more connection if that becomes their primary stomping grounds here. They would of course be free to edit any page, but we can encourage the teams to develop the pages that relate to their favorite characters/issues.
   2. Once teams start to develop, appoint a team leader, based upon who is generating the most new content. The leader's job is to coordinate the teams efforts, find more contributors who are familiar with that era, and make sure the team is building content that conforms to wiki standards.
   3. Assuming people begin generating content, we could make regular announcements to recognize users who have contributed the most in a given week or month (depends how frequent the edits become). We could also develop some type of contest to encourage a rivalry between the teams.
   4. Our job as Admins is to make sure that wiki is developed correctly, to moderate discussions between users which encourage continued contribution but keep content conforming to wiki standards. At this point in our development, getting more contributors up and running and regularly editing pages is more important than if the content is 100% on target. As long as they are involved, we can continue to increase our wiki content. If they quit, we lose everything that they might have added. We'll need to find ways to resolve their differences of opinion that still keep them wanting to be a part of the wiki.
   5. We could possibly develop another user type or two with increased levels of permissions. Contributors who reach some threshold of contribution would be granted the greater authority.

This is a departure from what we have done in the past, but I think we have shot at finding a good handful of contributors. If we can get even a half dozen people to contribute regularly, the greater value of the wiki due to greater amounts of information are likely to attract more contributors. With just a couple of people adding content, I don't believe we will ever achieve the critical mass necessary to cover something as big as the Legion with any depth or completeness.

However, I think that its important that we develop this plan before reaching out to new contributors. If we don't have our act together, people will not get involved or leave soon after joining. Our priorities now are to develop the plan, develop guidelines for the language used when we do reach out to people, contact key fans on blogs to get an idea of the support level, get our landing pages and explanations in place, and start collecting a list of "experts" and places where we want to find new contributors.

So, thoughts? - Gopher 20:53, 2 July 2010 (UTC)