Talk:Legion Publication History/2004-2006

How to handle multiple covers?

First time I've run across this with covers I have uploaded so far, but there will be more instances of this coming (JSA classified, first Supergirl and the LSH issue). Justice League of America v2 #1 was published with three different covers. I have uploaded the initial image as JLAv2-01A.jpg, with the intention uploading -01B and -01C sometime shortly.

We can either represent this issue one time in the LPH, or three times with all three linking to the same issue page (or multiple pages I suppose). All three cover images would be included on the issue page (I'm thinking as a gallery). All three versions of this issue were published on the same date, but in the case of Supergirl & the LSH #16, the 2nd printing version was released on a different date than the original. In the case of multiple publication dates, I'm leaning toward multiple entries in the LPH; those with same the date I could go either way. Any thoughts? --Gopher 15:17, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

I think SLSH #23 has a variant cover, too. My thoughts: include each one in the LPH as it occurs, so you'd have 2nd and 3rd printings in consecutive months, but only once for variant covers (like JLA #1). For the multiple covers in one month case, maybe display the covers next to each other, so you'd have something like this:

X

X

XX

X

where "X" is a cover. -- Omnicom 17:17, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

Good suggestions all. We can create the XX scenario by breaking out a separate table for that issue - I'll give it a shot.

-- Gopher 18:57, 2 October 2006 (PDT)

Looks good so far! Did you know that there was a second printing to JSA Classified #3? It's not the right size and I don't know the date it came out, but you can find it here. Part of my Field Guide to JSA Classified #1-4 entry. -- Omnicom 23:15, 4 October 2006 (PDT)

I had forgotten that they actually make an "appearance", although on looking through the issue again, I see the flight rings and the mention of Andromeda. We also get a reference to Luma Lunai. I have both printings, so I'll post them shortly. Thanks for the reminder!

-- Gopher 04:25, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

JLofAv2-7

Okay, I very rarely look at this page (out of complete disinterest in the contents), but why is the solicit image for JLofA7 included beside the two "real" covers? - Reboot (SoM) talk page 10:33, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

I use the solicit image or cover as a placeholder when I don't yet have the final image for that issue. In this case, I don't have a copy of the variant cover #7, although I should be receiving one in the next couple of days or so. When I am able to scan it, that image will replace the solicit image. We don't often get three covers for one entry, but this is one of those instances. Gopher 15:02, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

This is the page that I use (for lack of a better one) to note items of interest for the list, either upcoming or current. If it's not useful, I'll quit doing that.

Also, my "new stuff" entries can be deleted once the updates are made to the main page. I have no problem with that, and actually intended for it to be that way (or strike-thrus, like on some other "to do list" entries).

-- Omnicom 23:33, 25 April 2007 (PDT)

I'm, as you should know by now, a post-ZH Legion guy - that's where my LoSH interest lies, and I only occasionally edit other pages, and then only for tidy-up.

Generalising, I'm not buying ANY DC right now. since they've gone shooting off in a direction I pretty much despise. Ergo the complete disinterest in what they're doing. This page is for you, Craigopher and anyone else who *does* have an interest in what they're doing. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 05:35, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 10/24/06

• Supergirl and the Legion #23 has an alternate cover by Adam Hughes.
• 52 #24 has the backup story as the origin of Booster Gold. It shows Brainiac 5's force field belt and a Legion flight ring with the current logo. So the origin still involves the belt and ring, it's just a question now of where, when, and which continuity he got them from.
• Coming in November for January cover dates: Action Comics Annual #10 with Mon-el (on the cover described as "Superman's Big Brother"),
• Speaking of confusing continuities: The new Justice Society of America series features the Starman we saw in Kingdom Come and Starman, who we found out was the Zero Hour reboot's Star Boy. No word yet on exactly who he is yet. Issue 1 is in October, issue 2 in November.
• Starting in Teen Titans #42 is a storyline featuring the Titans East. One of the members is Deborah Morgna, aka the (apparently) villainous Sun Girl. Issue #43 comes out in November.

-- Omnicom 00:22, 24 October 2006 (PDT)

I'll add the new covers as images become available. From what I understand, Action Ann #10 will also have two covers. I should be able to post new entries for 52 #24 and Action Ann 10 shortly. Thanks for the heads up.

JSA and Teen Titans - How should we handle these...are you suggesting that we include every issue of TT that includes Sun Girl (or JSA/Starman)? Her first appearance? Only issues that make an obvious mention/reference to Legion (as we do with Booster Gold)?

-- Gopher 08:37, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

According to a Geoff Johns interview, Sun Girl is described as "There's a brand new character who, in a very strange way, is a pre-cursor to a character from the far future." I have no idea what the "very strange way" is. If she's an ancestor or descendant, then she gets treated just like any other Legionnaire ancestor (Brainiac, the Dox family, Strata) or descendant (Cub, the Ranzz twins). Or maybe she's just a coincidence (Persuader). I'd suggest list her appearances up to the point when we find out her secret, then decide from there how she really fits.

That same interview describes Starman as "he's very different than the other members". I'd play it the same way, his costume is inspired by the Kingdom Come and Starman series versions, which were inspired by the v3 starfield costume. Since we don't include any of the other Starmen, we shouldn't include him if all he has is a derivative costume with no other Legion connection.

Otherwise, yeah, leave them out unless there's some sort of reference.

Regarding Booster Gold, by the way, it's probably not something for the LPH, but I'd suggest we keep track of 30th century tech in the 20th century (time bubbles, flight rings, etc.). For example: Booster's Legion flight ring and his force field belt up to the point where they were destroyed, Superboy (Kon-el)'s ring that he got from the reboot Legion, and even Lori Morning's HERO dial. Not necessarily every issue, but something like "Superboy got his ring in issue X, gave it to Tana in issue Y, got it back in issue Z, etc.", "Booster's ring was used by Trixie in issue X, then he got it back and used it until it was destroyed in issue Z", or "Lori used Chris's dial, which she found in the Space Museum". These could go as special cases in the Flight Ring (or whatever) entry.

-- Omnicom 17:55, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

New Stuff 10/25/06

Out this week:

• Supergirl and the Legion #23 (regular and Adam Hughes 10:1 covers)
• Supergirl and the Legion TPB
• JLA #1 second printing (has the original promo poster as the cover, with Karate Kid)

-- Omnicom 18:05, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

Checked out the TPB in the store this weekend. It also reprints the illustrated letters columns, but I didn't catch which ones (if not all of them). -- Omnicom 19:30, 29 October 2006 (PST)

New Stuff 12/7/06

New and recent stuff of interest that I hadn't mentioned yet:

• The new Justice Society of America #1 has the new Starman who may be time-and-continuity lost. He mentions Polar Boy and Color Kid, and someone who might be Dawnstar appears. Issue #2 next month has him on the cover.
• S/LSH #24, obviously.
• Teen Titans #41 shows a photograph of Sun Girl, among other photos that Deathstroke is collecting. She appears for real in issue #42.
• 52 #28 has an appearance by the Emerald Head of Ekron, which is actually some sort of bioship piloted by the Green Lantern of Vengar.
• Superman/Batman: Absolute Power TPB reprints the stories from Superman/Batman 14-18.
• Flash: The Fastest Man Alive #2 from a few months ago has a cameo by Don Allen, one of the Tornado Twins. This would be the first post-IC evidence of the Flash legacy in the 31st century. Additionally, Inertia (grandson of post-Zero Hour reboot continuity's UP President Thawne) appears in the current issue. And speaking of Flash stuff, the current Captain Boomerang, Owen Mercer, is Bart's half-brother by his mother Meloni (Don Allen's wife), from a time when Mercer's father (the original Captain Boomerang) accidentally went to the post-Zero Hour 30th century. We'll need to arbitrarily decide who to keep track of here. There's a good Flash site [1] that tracks all of the speedsters.
• If you add merchandise to the publication history, the Vs. System CCG should be in stores on Wed. 12/13. I'll be working on that one.

-- Omnicom 22:42, 6 December 2006 (PST)

Hate replying on the post-IC pages, since I really don't want to know most of this crap, but a couple of things that I need to reply to...

• It's Justice Society of America v3, for the record (v1 was the 1991 maxi, v2 was the short-lived 1992 ongoing)
• Speedsters related - I'm content to bung the major as-post-Zero Hour characters (Tornado Twins, Flashes Barry & Wally), solely on XS/Relatives in summary, except maybe Impulse/Bart Allen who might be Legion-heavy enough for his own page. Boomerang Jr and the rest, I wouldn't bother at all.
• That Emerald Eye thing is REALLY REALLY STUPID... - Reboot (SoM) talk page 03:28, 7 December 2006 (PST)

Yeah, this isn't really the best place to be talking about how to write other sections. I'll try to keep that down to a minimum and only list new stuff that comes out.

• But since I brought it up... After thinking about it a bit, I think the Flash thing would work as a separate page called "Flash family", with sections covering each member of the extended family as they apply to the Legion, and we can cover any and all Flash/31st century stuff there. Although, the Tornado Twins have different histories pre- and post-Zero Hour. And remember that Impulse was an Honorary Legionnaire too.
• Not really sure what "bung the major" means in this context - "lump the majority" maybe?
• Re: Ekron - I can't disagree. But who was Ekron and why did his eyes behave like that?
• Re: JSA - I remembered the great Parobeck series, but I had forgotten about the first series.

-- Omnicom 09:22, 7 December 2006 (PST)

New Stuff 12/12/06

Newly announced, with on-sale dates:

• JSA #4 (March 7) - Starman
• Brave and Bold (v3) #2 (March 21) - back on Ventura
• Supergirl and the Legion #28 (March 28)
• Showcase Presents: The Legion TPB #1 (April 4)
• Supergirl and the Legion TPB #4: Adult Education (April 25)
• Supergirl and the Legion #23 (Hughes variant cover) poster (August 22)

-- Omnicom 22:04, 12 December 2006 (PST)

Seven Soldiers

I was reading this[2] tonight (which led to this review[3]) and came across a reference I didn't remember seeing in the "Seven Soldiers: Zatanna" #3 issue last spring. Page 20, panel 2: "Instead I brought her the bleeding, beautiful brain of a 31st century Telepathic Savant." Given that you've added similar mentions in the early days, I figured you might want to put this in. We don't know who this savant is (yet), but with Mark Waid and Grant Morrison both on 52, here's a dangling plot thread that might get picked up. -- Omnicom 00:32, 15 December 2006 (PST)

Tales of the Unexpected #1?

I added TotU #1 to the LPH based upon your AR list on Legion Clubhouse, but upon picking it up, I don't find Infectious Lass within. Did I miss a stray reference or tiny cameo? Is there some other Legion relevance? For now I am removing it from the page. --Gopher 05:24, 26 January 2007 (PST)

Supposedly she is visible in the shadows in the two issues before her "real" appearance. -- Omnicom 16:19, 26 January 2007 (PST)

Free Comic Book Day

I can't for the life of me figure out how the coding is supposed to work in this table, so I'll just let you know about this one. The LSH31C (my abbreviation for the comic based on the TV show) book will be given out for free as part of Free Comic Book Day on May 5th. Yes, that's only 3 weeks after it goes on sale for money. It's supposed to be the exact same thing as the regular book, only with the addition of the FCBD logo. Here's a small version of the cover [4]. -- Omnicom 16:20, 26 January 2007 (PST)

New Stuff, 2/2/07

In stores:

• 52 #39, in which a mechanical Emerald Eye is seen. There's no context as to why they're making a mechanical Eye or even if it's connected to the real Eye, it's just sitting there.
• JSA v3 #2 is going back to print with a new cover - the pencils-only version of the Eaglesham "Hawkman" variant cover. [5]

-- Omnicom 17:33, 2 February 2007 (PST)

New Stuff, 4/5/07

• JSA #4, the Showcase TPB, and S/LSH #28 all came out.
• JLA #7 has the prologue to the Lightning Storm storyline, in which it is revealed that the villain Trident is really (somehow) Karate Kid from the 31st century. Thus, we have to retroactively add JLA #2, 3, and 4 to the list. There are also two covers.
• Brad Meltzer said on his blog that the "real" cover to JLA #8 will be revealed this week.

-- Omnicom 01:22, 6 April 2007 (PDT)

New Stuff, 4/25/07

• The "real" cover to JLA #8 was the standard cover (with Karate Kid), whereas the Starman cover was the 1-in-10 version.
• JLA #1 is going into a 4th printing, with a recolored version of the variant cover by Turner, scheduled on-sale date 5/16.
• JLA #2 is going into a 2nd printing, with a pencils-only version of the variant cover by Turner, scheduled on-sale date 5/16.
• JLA #10 (Lightning Saga part 5) will have a regular and variant cover (sched. for 6/20)
• JLA Vol. 1 comes out 6/6 and reprints JLA #1-7.
• Arriving 4/25: Supergirl and the Legion #29, Adult Education TPB vol. 4, JSA #5 regular and variant

-- Omnicom 21:29, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

Updates --

* 52 #51 has the "true" origin of the Emerald Eye of Ekron. Turns out that it was a prototype will-powered green plasma weapon from the early days of Guardians technology. The Eye also appears.

* S/LSH #29 has a different creative team than what was solicited (supposed to be Waid, Kitson, and Gray, it came out with Bedard, Sharpe, and McKenna/Purcell).

* The Adult Education TPB also reprints issue 15 and the backup story from issue 12, along with reprints of the covers.

New Stuff, 5/9/07

• The Free Comic Book Day version of LSH31C was "published" on May 5
• Out this week - Tales of the Unexpected #8 (the solicitation cover is already up)
• Also Countdown #51, reprints the poster with Karate Kid as the wraparound cover

-- Omnicom 21:08, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

New stuff, 6/15/07

• Karate Kid is not in "Countdown" #46 this week, but the next-issue box shows him on the cover to #45 as the main character.

• The Legion of the late 1970's era has a cameo appearance in the Alex Ross book "Justice" this week. There are two covers.

-- Omnicom 17:19, 14 June 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 6/27/07

Starman appears with the rest of the JSA defending Washington, DC in "Amazons Attack!" #3, out this week (along with S/LSH #31 and Countdown #44). -- Omnicom 21:18, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the tip-off. I glanced through "Amazons Attack" very quickly and didn't catch that. I'll pick it up, scan and post. I'm a week or so behind in getting new issue covers uploaded. -- Gopher 05:13, 29 June 2007 (PDT)

Lyssa Drak

Why do we care about Lyssa Drak in the Green Lantern books, was it established that she's related to the Mallor line? She's not from Talok VIII, Shadow Lass's home planet, but if you're including all blue-skinned people from the Talok system then you've got to go back to the Starman series and get all of the Mykaal Tomas appearances as well. -- Omnicom 23:29, 19 July 2007 (PDT)

A valid question. My initial thought is that this is Legion-related because she was from the Talok system, and happened to have a costume that looked exactly like the Cockrum/Grell version of Shady's. I didn't think she would appear in more than one or two issues, but now it appears we may see more of her. Perhaps we should have a new page for appearances by related races, such as Lyssa, Mykaal, the Durlan in the Green Lantern Corps issues, etc. Any interest in something like that, or should we remove her appearances altogether? -- Gopher 15:38, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Remove with extreme prejudice, IMO. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 17:32, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

I assume that we're going to have other races/planets - Daxamites, Khunds, Dominators, Durlans, etc. - that will each have their own page. That's valid, as long as we don't require pages for Field Marshal Lorca, Kel Gand, Ji Daggle, and the rest ("Lyssa Drak" redirects to "Talok System", for example). We can use named, known characters as examples of the races without tracking every one if they're not important. Put her with a list of other Talokians from the present and the Legion's future on a page for the Talok system (of which we know there are at least three habitable planets). -- Omnicom 18:09, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Sounds reasonable enough. There are already references to Talok VIII/Post-Zero Hour, so Talok VIII/Post-Infinite Crisis seems likely. How about a sub-heading on that page for "Talok System" or "Other Planets in the Talok System"? -- Gopher 06:13, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

By my count we'll have three Talok pages. Pre-Crisis, I think all we had was Talok VIII. Post-ZH, we added Starman from Talok VII. Post-IC, we have added Talok IV. So given that we're not combining eras, that would give us:

• Talok VIII/Pre-Crisis, with redirects here for Post-Crisis and Glorithverse. There was enough there for VIII to have its own page, and there were no other known significant inhabited worlds in the system as far as I remember.
• Talok System/Post-Zero Hour, which includes Talok VIII from the Legion series (was there enough to justify it being the main page instead of having a combined page?) and VII from the Starman series.
• Talok System/Post-Infinite Crisis, which has whatever we know about VIII from the Legion series, the same stuff about VII from Starman (since nothing has come along to update that info), and whatever we know about IV from Green Lantern.
• Plus, of course, a disambig page. I think I'll take care of this now so we don't forget about it and it gives us a precedent for other worlds. And we'll have to come up with a Worlds template too.

-- Omnicom 17:01, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

I'm leery about assuming ANY post-ZH stuff that hasn't been confirmed holds post-IC. Several aspects of Starman v2 have been rendered difficult or untenable post-IC. #49-50 gets especially hit, because of the double-barrelled visits to Byrne-Krypton and post-ZH Legion. Both of which get followed up later, with the Shade revealing a few beats, Superman dropping by to ask about his dad, and Umbra telling Mikaal his destiny. Plus, of course, the series finale being dependent on a future post-ZH Thom.

Unlike the Glorithverse→Post-ZH transition, where most of the 20th Century stuff that had been established post-Crisis except the direct ZH lead-ups stayed in afterward (the first half of the Valor series and all of Lar's earlier appearances, the Superman Pocket Universe stories, etc), all traces of the post-Crisis, Glorithverse & post-ZH Legions appear to have been yanked.

Too many bloody retcon-punches... - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:18, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Page Nomenclature for the 52 Worlds

Does anyone anticipate any future issues with distinguishing Legions from multiple worlds within the new 52-world framework? As much as the Lightning-Saga Legionnaires look and feel like the old Pre-Crisis Legion, they are really a Post-Infinite Crisis Legion from an alternate Earth. Any thoughts, for instance, on how we will distinguish between the two Karate Kids in the upcoming Supergirl issue? Karate Kid/Post-Infinite Crisis/Earth XX?, or would you prefer to use the old Karate Kid/Pre-Crisis? We may know more after the upcoming storyline in Action Comics. -- Gopher 06:13, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Certainly not the /Pre-Crisis pages - it appears to be an alternate Post-Crisis from what I've seen (and thus justifies the Pre/Post-Crisis split on that basis alone) and should be treated in the same way as the "real" Post-Crisis, with a set of pages - IF they're going to be ongoing presences, which it appears they may well be. Some sort of tree diagram (Lightning Saga ← Pre-Crisis → Post Crisis → Glorithverse) may be helpful

First inclination for nomenclature is XXX/Post-Lightning Saga, but see how that goes. XXX/Post-Infinite Crisis/Disambig may be wiser. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 10:51, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

If we find out that the Legion from "Lightning Saga" is from Earth-27, then we should put Karate Kid/Earth-27. However, what if they reveal that the post-Zero Hour Legion is now on Earth-9 and the post-Infinite Crisis Legion is the future of New Earth, do we redirect all "post-Zero Hour" pages to "Earth-9"? I tried to do that with Kingdom Come Earth to Earth-22 but that got mostly shot down. In any event, it shouldn't be "post-Lightning Saga" since that implies a Legion that was different before and after that event, which isn't the case. If anything, it would just be "Karate Kid/Lightning Saga" which implies he's from that Legion. -- Omnicom 16:43, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

If the "/Earth-##" nomenclature is to be used, it should be as "XXX/Post-Infinite Crisis/Earth-##" as Gopher suggested, not straight "XXX/Earth-##".

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should any postboot-styled Legion cause pages to be moved so that /Post-Zero Hour pages would redirect to "Earth-247" (or whatever) set of pages. I would even strongly argue against the reverse of redirecting "Cosmic Boy/Earth-247" (or whatever) to Cosmic Boy/Post-Zero Hour, because it's going to be exactly that - postboot-style, not postboot. We don't redirect /Glorithverse to /Pre-Crisis. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:07, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 8/1/07

New this week:

• Amazons Attack #3 - Starman one-panel appearance
• Countdown #39 - Karate Kid and Una
• JSA (v4) #8 - one panel Dream Girl in flashback, no Starman

-- Omnicom 21:07, 1 August 2007 (PDT)

I didn't notice the Amazons Attack #3... was that a reprint of the issue from June 27?

-- Gopher 02:24, 2 August 2007 (PDT)

Never mind. I saw it listed elsewhere and missed the part where the guy said it's from a few weeks ago. However, there are DCAU Durlans in the latest Justice League Adventures #36 (to join the Daxamites and Tharrians we've seen there already). -- Omnicom 23:30, 2 August 2007 (PDT)