Talk:Legion Publication History/2007

Tales of the Unexpected #1?

I added TotU #1 to the LPH based upon your AR list on Legion Clubhouse, but upon picking it up, I don't find Infectious Lass within. Did I miss a stray reference or tiny cameo? Is there some other Legion relevance? For now I am removing it from the page. --Gopher 05:24, 26 January 2007 (PST)

Supposedly she is visible in the shadows in the two issues before her "real" appearance. -- Omnicom 16:19, 26 January 2007 (PST)

Free Comic Book Day

I can't for the life of me figure out how the coding is supposed to work in this table, so I'll just let you know about this one. The LSH31C (my abbreviation for the comic based on the TV show) book will be given out for free as part of Free Comic Book Day on May 5th. Yes, that's only 3 weeks after it goes on sale for money. It's supposed to be the exact same thing as the regular book, only with the addition of the FCBD logo. Here's a small version of the cover [1]. -- Omnicom 16:20, 26 January 2007 (PST)

New Stuff, 2/2/07

In stores:

• 52 #39, in which a mechanical Emerald Eye is seen. There's no context as to why they're making a mechanical Eye or even if it's connected to the real Eye, it's just sitting there.
• JSA v3 #2 is going back to print with a new cover - the pencils-only version of the Eaglesham "Hawkman" variant cover. [2]

-- Omnicom 17:33, 2 February 2007 (PST)

New Stuff, 4/5/07

• JSA #4, the Showcase TPB, and S/LSH #28 all came out.
• JLA #7 has the prologue to the Lightning Storm storyline, in which it is revealed that the villain Trident is really (somehow) Karate Kid from the 31st century. Thus, we have to retroactively add JLA #2, 3, and 4 to the list. There are also two covers.
• Brad Meltzer said on his blog that the "real" cover to JLA #8 will be revealed this week.

-- Omnicom 01:22, 6 April 2007 (PDT)

New Stuff, 4/25/07

• The "real" cover to JLA #8 was the standard cover (with Karate Kid), whereas the Starman cover was the 1-in-10 version.
• JLA #1 is going into a 4th printing, with a recolored version of the variant cover by Turner, scheduled on-sale date 5/16.
• JLA #2 is going into a 2nd printing, with a pencils-only version of the variant cover by Turner, scheduled on-sale date 5/16.
• JLA #10 (Lightning Saga part 5) will have a regular and variant cover (sched. for 6/20)
• JLA Vol. 1 comes out 6/6 and reprints JLA #1-7.
• Arriving 4/25: Supergirl and the Legion #29, Adult Education TPB vol. 4, JSA #5 regular and variant

-- Omnicom 21:29, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

Updates --

* 52 #51 has the "true" origin of the Emerald Eye of Ekron. Turns out that it was a prototype will-powered green plasma weapon from the early days of Guardians technology. The Eye also appears.

* S/LSH #29 has a different creative team than what was solicited (supposed to be Waid, Kitson, and Gray, it came out with Bedard, Sharpe, and McKenna/Purcell).

* The Adult Education TPB also reprints issue 15 and the backup story from issue 12, along with reprints of the covers.

New Stuff, 5/9/07

• The Free Comic Book Day version of LSH31C was "published" on May 5
• Out this week - Tales of the Unexpected #8 (the solicitation cover is already up)
• Also Countdown #51, reprints the poster with Karate Kid as the wraparound cover

-- Omnicom 21:08, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

New stuff, 6/15/07

• Karate Kid is not in "Countdown" #46 this week, but the next-issue box shows him on the cover to #45 as the main character.

• The Legion of the late 1970's era has a cameo appearance in the Alex Ross book "Justice" this week. There are two covers.

-- Omnicom 17:19, 14 June 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 6/27/07

Starman appears with the rest of the JSA defending Washington, DC in "Amazons Attack!" #3, out this week (along with S/LSH #31 and Countdown #44). -- Omnicom 21:18, 28 June 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the tip-off. I glanced through "Amazons Attack" very quickly and didn't catch that. I'll pick it up, scan and post. I'm a week or so behind in getting new issue covers uploaded. -- Gopher 05:13, 29 June 2007 (PDT)

Lyssa Drak

Why do we care about Lyssa Drak in the Green Lantern books, was it established that she's related to the Mallor line? She's not from Talok VIII, Shadow Lass's home planet, but if you're including all blue-skinned people from the Talok system then you've got to go back to the Starman series and get all of the Mykaal Tomas appearances as well. -- Omnicom 23:29, 19 July 2007 (PDT)

A valid question. My initial thought is that this is Legion-related because she was from the Talok system, and happened to have a costume that looked exactly like the Cockrum/Grell version of Shady's. I didn't think she would appear in more than one or two issues, but now it appears we may see more of her. Perhaps we should have a new page for appearances by related races, such as Lyssa, Mykaal, the Durlan in the Green Lantern Corps issues, etc. Any interest in something like that, or should we remove her appearances altogether? -- Gopher 15:38, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Remove with extreme prejudice, IMO. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 17:32, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

I assume that we're going to have other races/planets - Daxamites, Khunds, Dominators, Durlans, etc. - that will each have their own page. That's valid, as long as we don't require pages for Field Marshal Lorca, Kel Gand, Ji Daggle, and the rest ("Lyssa Drak" redirects to "Talok System", for example). We can use named, known characters as examples of the races without tracking every one if they're not important. Put her with a list of other Talokians from the present and the Legion's future on a page for the Talok system (of which we know there are at least three habitable planets). -- Omnicom 18:09, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Sounds reasonable enough. There are already references to Talok VIII/Post-Zero Hour, so Talok VIII/Post-Infinite Crisis seems likely. How about a sub-heading on that page for "Talok System" or "Other Planets in the Talok System"? -- Gopher 06:13, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

By my count we'll have three Talok pages. Pre-Crisis, I think all we had was Talok VIII. Post-ZH, we added Starman from Talok VII. Post-IC, we have added Talok IV. So given that we're not combining eras, that would give us:

• Talok VIII/Pre-Crisis, with redirects here for Post-Crisis and Glorithverse. There was enough there for VIII to have its own page, and there were no other known significant inhabited worlds in the system as far as I remember.
• Talok System/Post-Zero Hour, which includes Talok VIII from the Legion series (was there enough to justify it being the main page instead of having a combined page?) and VII from the Starman series.
• Talok System/Post-Infinite Crisis, which has whatever we know about VIII from the Legion series, the same stuff about VII from Starman (since nothing has come along to update that info), and whatever we know about IV from Green Lantern.
• Plus, of course, a disambig page. I think I'll take care of this now so we don't forget about it and it gives us a precedent for other worlds. And we'll have to come up with a Worlds template too.

-- Omnicom 17:01, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

I'm leery about assuming ANY post-ZH stuff that hasn't been confirmed holds post-IC. Several aspects of Starman v2 have been rendered difficult or untenable post-IC. #49-50 gets especially hit, because of the double-barrelled visits to Byrne-Krypton and post-ZH Legion. Both of which get followed up later, with the Shade revealing a few beats, Superman dropping by to ask about his dad, and Umbra telling Mikaal his destiny. Plus, of course, the series finale being dependent on a future post-ZH Thom.

Unlike the Glorithverse→Post-ZH transition, where most of the 20th Century stuff that had been established post-Crisis except the direct ZH lead-ups stayed in afterward (the first half of the Valor series and all of Lar's earlier appearances, the Superman Pocket Universe stories, etc), all traces of the post-Crisis, Glorithverse & post-ZH Legions appear to have been yanked.

Too many bloody retcon-punches... - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:18, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Page Nomenclature for the 52 Worlds

Does anyone anticipate any future issues with distinguishing Legions from multiple worlds within the new 52-world framework? As much as the Lightning-Saga Legionnaires look and feel like the old Pre-Crisis Legion, they are really a Post-Infinite Crisis Legion from an alternate Earth. Any thoughts, for instance, on how we will distinguish between the two Karate Kids in the upcoming Supergirl issue? Karate Kid/Post-Infinite Crisis/Earth XX?, or would you prefer to use the old Karate Kid/Pre-Crisis? We may know more after the upcoming storyline in Action Comics. -- Gopher 06:13, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Certainly not the /Pre-Crisis pages - it appears to be an alternate Post-Crisis from what I've seen (and thus justifies the Pre/Post-Crisis split on that basis alone) and should be treated in the same way as the "real" Post-Crisis, with a set of pages - IF they're going to be ongoing presences, which it appears they may well be. Some sort of tree diagram (Lightning Saga ← Pre-Crisis → Post Crisis → Glorithverse) may be helpful

First inclination for nomenclature is XXX/Post-Lightning Saga, but see how that goes. XXX/Post-Infinite Crisis/Disambig may be wiser. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 10:51, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

If we find out that the Legion from "Lightning Saga" is from Earth-27, then we should put Karate Kid/Earth-27. However, what if they reveal that the post-Zero Hour Legion is now on Earth-9 and the post-Infinite Crisis Legion is the future of New Earth, do we redirect all "post-Zero Hour" pages to "Earth-9"? I tried to do that with Kingdom Come Earth to Earth-22 but that got mostly shot down. In any event, it shouldn't be "post-Lightning Saga" since that implies a Legion that was different before and after that event, which isn't the case. If anything, it would just be "Karate Kid/Lightning Saga" which implies he's from that Legion. -- Omnicom 16:43, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

If the "/Earth-##" nomenclature is to be used, it should be as "XXX/Post-Infinite Crisis/Earth-##" as Gopher suggested, not straight "XXX/Earth-##".

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should any postboot-styled Legion cause pages to be moved so that /Post-Zero Hour pages would redirect to "Earth-247" (or whatever) set of pages. I would even strongly argue against the reverse of redirecting "Cosmic Boy/Earth-247" (or whatever) to Cosmic Boy/Post-Zero Hour, because it's going to be exactly that - postboot-style, not postboot. We don't redirect /Glorithverse to /Pre-Crisis. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:07, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 8/1/07

New this week:

• Amazons Attack #3 - Starman one-panel appearance
• Countdown #39 - Karate Kid and Una
• JSA (v4) #8 - one panel Dream Girl in flashback, no Starman

-- Omnicom 21:07, 1 August 2007 (PDT)

I didn't notice the Amazons Attack #3... was that a reprint of the issue from June 27?

-- Gopher 02:24, 2 August 2007 (PDT)

Never mind. I saw it listed elsewhere and missed the part where the guy said it's from a few weeks ago. However, there are DCAU Durlans in the latest Justice League Adventures Unlimited #36 (to join the Daxamites and Tharrians we've seen there already). -- Omnicom 23:30, 2 August 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 8/15/07

New this week:

• Countdown #37: Karate Kid and Una
• LSH in the 31st Century #5
• Brave & Bold (v3) #6
• All-New Booster Gold #1: Booster's flight ring and various Legionnaires

-- Omnicom 20:28, 15 August 2007 (PDT)

Action Comics #851

Forgot to mention that Action Comics #851 (July 2007) had both a 3-D and non-3-D versions. I don't know if they had different cover art, but they were different prices. -- Omnicom 21:35, 21 August 2007 (PDT)

New Stuff 8/22/07

In addition to Countdown #36 and S/LSH #33 (already noted in the main article), this week also contained the Wonder Woman Showcase vol 1, which reprints Wonder Woman v1 #101. -- Omnicom 21:26, 26 August 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 9/17/07

Karate Kid does not appear in Countdown 32. In its place, add JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA: THE NEW AGE hardcover, which reprints JSA 1-4. -- Omnicom 18:10, 23 September 2007 (PDT)

TV show air dates

Should the air dates of the various TV episodes be added to the publication history, or should we build a separate air date history? How about the on-sale dates of various merchandise items like Heroclix, DC Direct action figures, etc., where known? -- Omnicom 18:16, 23 September 2007 (PDT)

I'm of the opinion that the LPH should remain focused on publications. We could create separate pages for a Legion Broadcast History and a Legion Merchandise History (named otherwise if anyone is inclined to calling them sonmething else). I'd be happy to assist with building similar page structures to the LPH, if we determine that having broadcast and merchandise pages with a similar look/feel is desirable. Certainly, the broadcasts could very easily fit such a structure, with screenshots replacing cover images. Since there aren't many broadcasts to include outside of the Legion cartoon, it should be fairly easy to put an LBH together. The merchandise pages might be a bit more challenging to keep in the same format, because the images are of all different shapes and sizes. -- Gopher 10:05, 24 September 2007 (PDT)

Re: cartoons, etc

Yeah, better as something standalone (not 100% sure on "Legion Broadcast History" for something that would presumably include the DVD releases, but no better titles leap to mind) than trying to incorporate it into her.

Re: Mechandise.

Been started and kinda abandoned @ List of non-comics merchandise/Pre-Crisis (it was split out of Duke's data, which became the foundation of the first half or so of the LPH, since it seemed wiser to focus that on the comics, and hasn't been touched since in any greatly significant way). - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:29, 24 September 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 9/26/07

• The cover to Supergirl & The LSH #34 that actually appeared is different than the solicited one. Does not appear to be an alternate cover.
• Justice League of America #13 (cover A, the left hand side) shows a character that looks pretty much like Validus, though he (and most of the villains on the cover) don't appear in the story so far.

-- Omnicom 14:51, 30 September 2007 (PDT)

Sodam Yat

Sodam Yat from the current "Green Lantern Corps" series is from Daxam (sector 3182). He originally appeared as part of a prophecy in "Tales of the Green Lantern Corps" Annual #2 in 1986 (recently reprinted in the Best of Alan Moore's DCU book), in a story that basically sets up the current Sinestro Corps War storyline. [3], [4]. As a Daxamite, he was considered the "Ultimate Green Lantern". He made his formal introduction to the DC Universe with GL Corps #14, he's been in 15 (two printings, second has a sketch cover) and this week's issue #16.

So, do we add all of these issues to the LPH? Do any of them specifically mention Daxam? I would guess the prophecy does, but how about the recent issues? It may be more appropriate to mention them the way we did the Lyssa Drak issues, depending upon the specific content -- Gopher 04:43, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

Additionally:

• The cover to the Wonder Woman Showcase on the LPH 2007 page is the original issue, not the Showcase cover.

The current image is what DC used in solicitations. At some point I'll pick it up and replace it with the real cover, with the real and solicitation images images cross-referenced to each other. -- Gopher 04:43, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

• I found out that there is an RRP (Retailer Roundup Program) version of Booster Gold v2 #1. It has a pencils-only cover. You can see images on eBay (look for "Booster Gold RRP cover"). It was given out at the Diamond Retailers Summit on 9/10/07 in Baltimore.

Good catch - I'll add in an entry with the solicitation image for now and replace with the real cover when I get a copy. -- Gopher 04:43, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

-- Omnicom 22:38, 5 October 2007 (PDT)

Huh?

Wait, we're now adding issues every time a Daxamite - ANY Daxamite - turns up? I say thee nay. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 06:25, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

Well, historically, haven't we noted Durlans, Controllers, and Khunds? I know we just covered this with the Talokians, but we just added other "Green Lantern Corps" issues (#7-9) with those guys. and "Invasion" features those guys plus Daxamites and Gil'Dishpan. Should the GLC information be mentioned on the Green Lantern Corps page and/or the races/planet pages? -- Omnicom 13:29, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

Invasion's just on the L.E.G.I.O.N. Publication History, isn't it? (which is fair enough, given that L.E.G.I.O.N. span out of that)

The GLC #7-9 inclusion, I let go without comment since I presumed that the "Daggle" thing was more directly connected, ditto the Sun Girl/Morgna thing.

In general things are (still) inconsistent - if you're noting all Controller-related activity, you need every issue of Darkstars and various additional issues of Green Lantern to track Donna frakking Troy & Effigy. If you're noting every Daxamite appearance, you need the Post-Crisis Kandor stuff, since that had a Daxamite or two, and JSA:OWWWWW. But none of this stuff is actually in any way linked in - Daxamites, in particular, have been what Keith Giffen calls "stew stock" for yoinks.

On the other hand, the Superboys aren't being tracked - being absolutely pedantic under the "Elastic Lad/Insect Queen" rule, I could work every issue of Young Justice in here, since Kon-El was an honourary member (I think he may even have worn his flight ring on occasion), Bart was XS' cousin, and Bart, Robin & Wonder Girl became honouraries in the Titans/Legion "Special" timeline. (As I've said before, I really don't get why we track Elastic Lad issues that have no direct Legion appearance/reference, especially since we don't track Jimmy as a whole or the Kal-El Superboy.)

Now, I realise I'm less "inclusive" on these matters than you two, but I'd want at least a direct line between one and the other, rather than "Daxamites have been involved in Legion plots, include all Daxamite appearances". - Reboot (SoM) talk page 16:20, 6 October 2007 (PDT)

My opinion on this has changed over the last few weeks, beginning with our solution to the Lyssa Drak info. Before that time, I felt we should include every appearance of a race/species that originated within the Legion mythos, so any issue with Daxamites, Durlans, Talokians, etc. As a complete Legion reference, I feel these issues, even those with no direct Legion tie are of interest to Legion fans and should be represented in the wiki. However, with the Lyssa Drak solution, we now have a way to accomodate references to those issues without giving the amount of coverage that strictly Legion-related issues deserve. My preferred method would be to remove those issues (that do not have direct ties to the Legion) from the LPH, but list those issues on pages specific to Daxam, Durla, etc. If that means a list including the Darkstars, etc, then so be it, but not within the LPH and not with cover images, etc.

In the case of Daggles and Morgnas, to me that is enough of a Legion tie to rate inclusion in the LPH. If we want to reduce that, we could include the first appearance in the LPH with a linked note to the specific planet/species/character page, although I'd rather see all of these included. Lyssa Drak is a good example of a character that doesn't make the cut, so she gets the planet page treatment only. If in the future we learn that she is Shadow Lass's distant ancestor, then we might want to reconsider.

In the case of Invasion (which by the way, IS currently listed in the regular non-L.E.G.I.O.N.) LPH), we have Dominators, Khunds, Daxamites, Durlans and Gil' Dishpan. That's a combination that's very tempting to include because there are so many Legion-related species. However, without a stronger Legion-related tie, I don't feel races alone qualify them to make the cut. Once the L.E.G.I.O.N.'s Durlan (R.J. Brande) becomes involved, that to me is the Legion tie needed to warrant LPH inclusion.

As for Keith Giffen and his statement about Daxamites, he is largely responsible for that status. Before Invasion, Mon-El was pretty much the only Daxamite we had ever seen. The Green Lantern that Michael points out could be the first other one. (Correct if I'm wrong here, guys, but I'm not aware of any other Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis appeances). The same was true of the Dominators, which Invasion brought firmly into the non-Legion DC universe. Since Invasion, it has become more and more likely to see Daxamites, Controllers, Dominators, etc. Before that time, any other appearance by one of these races was something that made a Legion fan sit up and take notice, because they were so rare. Now, its becoming more and more common with the proliferation of Legion-related characters and story elements in a few current series, and with that commonness I now feel they should be relagated to the planet pages.

My opinion has also changed for Elastic Lad, Insect Queen, Dev-Em, etc. Their first appearance can be listed on the Precursors page, with a note leading to the individual character page for a full (succint, non-LPH style) list of appearances. We could also have a note in the few LPH entries that include their Legion-related appearances. With this method, anyone interested in Elastic Lad appearances can find more information about them, but they wont "bog down" the regular Legion material. Same goes for other tangential characters like Booster Gold. We could even conceivably list all non-LSH appearances of Superboy, Supergirl, etc on their own character pages with no more than a paragraph of text. Why not have such a list? It wouldn't really take that much space,and we are not "obligated" to give those issues any further attention whatsoever. We would, however, satisfy the stray obsessive fan who wants to see that data.

-- Gopher 11:09, 16 October 2007 (PDT)

New stuff 10/24/07

• Starman appears for a few panels in "Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Superman-Prime" #1
• In "Superman" #669, during the story told by a renegade Kryptonian soldier, she mentions that as the Kryptonian Empire pulled back from their expansion, Khundia moved in from the mining worlds. She also mentions the prison world of Takron-Galtos (which by itself is interesting in that it has been a prison planet for 1000 years).

-- Omnicom 22:44, 26 October 2007 (PDT)

Countdown

Shouldn't Countdown 26 and down be "Countdown to FInal Crisis"? (Or as Brian Hibbs points out the logo looks like, "Countdown to Anal Crisis"...) - Reboot (SoM) talk page 16:22, 7 November 2007 (PST)

The indicia indicates that the title has not changed, and DC still refers to the series as just "Countdown" everywhere in print or online that I have seen. -- Gopher 18:41, 7 November 2007 (PST)

New stuff 11/7/07

• Superman #670 has a fight scene in Superman's Fortress. Several of the Legion statues are knocked around.

Takron-Galtos in the news

Depending how you read the Newsarama article, the planet in "Salvation Run" appears to be Takron-Galtos.

According to this page, we've missed a couple of T-G references in the LPH. "It exists in the 20th Century, as shown in Justice League of America #247, February 1986. It is featured in JLA #21, August 1998, when Adam Strange, along with the League, tricks an invading force of aliens, the En'teran Slavemasters. The aliens end up teleported to the surface of Takron-Galtos." -- Omnicom 23:16, 21 November 2007 (PST)

I'll add these in, but I'd like to track down the JLA-related issues and see the actual references first. Not sure if we want to include a whole series because the planet might be T-G, but if references are specifically made to it, or to other Legion connections, then it will make more sense. -- Gopher 11:55, 3 December 2007 (PST)

New stuff 11/21/07

• The cover to Action 859 that is shown here is actually the 1-in-10 cover. Here's an example of the regular version.
• Countdown #23 has an appearance by the Dominators.

-- Omnicom 18:27, 25 November 2007 (PST)

New stuff 12/30/07

Coming Distractions:

• DC Universe: The Stories of Alan Moore HC (Jan 2) is relisted, possibly with a new cover. Among others, the "Whatever Happened to the Man of Steel" is reprinted.
• Action #862 (Feb. 27) has a 10-for-1 variant cover by Keith Giffen.
• Wonder Woman #18 (March 12) has WW fighting Khunds in space, prior to their planned invasion of Earth. It's a 2-parter so I assume issue #19 will have the Khunds as well.
• LSH in the 31st Century vol 1: Tomorrow's Heroes TP (March 19) reprints LSH31C #1-6.
• Showcase Presents Booster Gold vol 1 (March 26), reprints Booster Gold v1 #1-25.
• JSA vol 2: Thy Kingdom Come, part 1 HC (April 16), reprints JSA #7-12.
• Booster Gold vol 1: 52 Pickup HC (May 7) reprints the first 6 issues of the new Booster Gold series.

Recently:

• Action 860 (out 12/19) has an alternate cover by Steve Lightle. I don't know if it's a 10-for-1, but there were a few on the shelf next to the stack of the regular Frank cover issues.
• LSH: An Eye for an Eye (out 12/19) was solicited with the "Tales of the LSH" #326 cover, though the actual logo and cover copy are different. The book reprints issues #1-6 of LSH v3 plus their covers, the covers to "Tales" #327-331, and the "Who's Who in the DC Universe" entries for the Legion, the LSV, and Karate Kid. See my page for all of the covers.
• LSH v5 #37 has two covers, A and B. The one on this page is the A cover.

-- Omnicom 15:04, 30 December 2007 (PST)